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[Itzzaboy]

if you gave both Ashe and Graves the same build, Graves would deal more damage. Graves has a higher damage potential than Ashe and will generally only be able to beat the other by being extremely fed or having another form of advantage.

 

[Legion]

My point is that the human factor of practice can make the bigger difference
on a different note:
Sure he would do more damage. But he also moves and attacks a lot slower. The build i use on ashe has a lot of life-steal and attack speed boosts. By attacking much faster than Graves, lifesteal would allow me to keep up with the damage for a long time, and if im ever low on health, id use frost shot and ice missile and make my escape.

Though, with graves i use a pure tank build. Since he already does enough damage to start with, i dont really need to increase his damage too much for him to still be effective.

Dangit itzza, you picked my two favorite and best champions and asked me which i think would win XD

 

[Itzzaboy]

You build Graves as a tank? No wonder he attacks bloody slow.

 

[Kuyek]

All AD champions require at least one attack speed item, be it Phantom Dancer/Black Cleaver for carries or Trinity Force for offtanks. I don't think that tanky build is a good idea on Greaves since he needs that AD for burst damage. Personally I would start with 2 dorans and rush Bloodthirster. Of course if the situation would let me to do that.

 

[Legion]

Well, i actually do get trinity force, so its not a pure tank build, but after that.

 

[Itzzaboy]

Graves isnt an offtank though. His passive makes him possibly the tankiest of the AD carries, but that isn't saying much.

 

[Kuyek]

Yeah, Xin can and should be an offtank, but none of ranged AD carries fits into this role. They have range to compensate for relatively low health/armor. The only thing they do need for defense is magic resist to survive those nukes from the enemy team.

 

[Itzzaboy]

Xin Zhao is powerful enough as it is. At least lower his damage and cc if you want to make him more tanky.

 

[Itzzaboy]

The only thing they do need for defense is magic resist to survive those nukes from the enemy team.

Agreed, which is why items like the Hexdrinker and Banshee's Veil are such good items on AD carries.

 

[Legion]

Dont forget though, builds arnt just used to enhance the good attributes a champion already has, builds also can be used to make up for the champions short comings. For example, i find that an enemy always manages to sneak off behind a turret before i can get the last shot in. As such, i build graves tanky so that i can follow them past turrets into their territory without worrying about dying.

 

[Kuyek]

That's some crazy ideas you're talking about. You dive the tower only when you're sure of the location of whole enemy team or with some support from offtank/tank who will take tower aggro for you.

 

[Itzzaboy]

Dont forget though, builds arnt just used to enhance the good attributes a champion already has, builds also can be used to make up for the champions short comings. For example, i find that an enemy always manages to sneak off behind a turret before i can get the last shot in. As such, i build graves tanky so that i can follow them past turrets into their territory without worrying about dying.

I could understand that if it was a game where you need to only rely on yourself, but this a team game. Carries are meant to deal the damage whereas the tanks are the ones who take the damage. Each champion has abilities which are attuned to the class of which it belongs. Sure you can build Graves like a tank, but not only will he suck at damage he wont be as good at tanking as say Alistar or Galio.
I do see what you mean about covering for weaknesses but generally you rely on your teammates for that in this game.

 

[Legion]

Oh, you see when i play i dont know anyone im playing with, so i really have to rely on myself.
If i was playing with you guys though, yes i would build him straight damage.

 

[Serah (Qri)]

Necro-ing an old thread. Bam

 

[Teirakie]

Preferences on Appearance?: hmm badass?
Preferences on Abilities?: ehh multi minion massacre and pvp skills ?
Ranged, Melee or any?: hmm dont really mind
Want to stack with a certain item/items?: ehm.. nope
Want to counter a particular champion?: The infamous Katarina >_>
Want to fill a particular role? (Carry, support, mage): i like to support
Do you have an ip budget? (Champions cost either 450, 1350, 3150, 4800 or 6300 ip, not including sales): i will pay any price e.e
Anything else you need/want? ehmm nope..

 

[Serah (Qri)]

Preferences on Appearance?: hmm badass?
Preferences on Abilities?: ehh multi minion massacre and pvp skills ?
Ranged, Melee or any?: hmm dont really mind
Want to stack with a certain item/items?: ehm.. nope
Want to counter a particular champion?: The infamous Katarina >_>
Want to fill a particular role? (Carry, support, mage): i like to support
Do you have an ip budget? (Champions cost either 450, 1350, 3150, 4800 or 6300 ip, not including sales): i will pay any price e.e
Anything else you need/want? ehmm nope..

The Preference and Role counter each other. Support have no farm and 1v1 skills.

 

[Itzzaboy]

For the love of god can you two both STOP ARGUING!

Carry on and i'll have to look at losing forum privledges as me asking you to stop clearly isnt working.

 

[Teirakie]

but but.. ._. it doesnt have to be support.. like i said in my application in the team, im new and i want to try all the different roles to see wich ones are the best for me.. today i used a lot of support classes (as far as i know xD) and i liked it, but i never tried to tank or what ever xD

 

[Teirakie]

for example i liked the 2 vs 1 match between qri and itzza and me. i was able to attack qri and heal Itzza

 

[matyio]

For the love of god can you two both STOP ARGUING!

Carry on and i'll have to look at losing forum privledges as me asking you to stop clearly isnt working.

If its possible to remove privileges from a certain area of the forum, remove mine from here itzza, it's obvious you've found enough people to eventually replace me anyway.