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Constructive Criticism - Exploration Phase

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
(I'm going to keep doing them as they come)

Charlie Foxtrot.

There's a mad rush to register exploration events and it really doesn't make a whole lot of IC sense for everyone to be rushing to make 'expedition parties'.

OOCly, whoever doesn't get all their things together first is going to be stuck waiting in a queue.

Problems arise if:

A) A party can go to a location that includes an item of interest and /misses/ it, then it will most likely go unexplored until the map is exhausted and we have to then /re-explore/ everything again.
AA) If they are guaranteed to find it if it's there, it removes all aspects of skill from the exploration, just madly spam the explore button and you'll find all sites.

B) The expeditions to the fruitful sites are pushed down behind nonfruitful sites, we could be sitting here for a very long time.

C) On further consideration, I have to remark that publicly announcing the exploration mechanics, while allowing more folks to participate, also completely removed any kind of reward for my own and others creative thinking and initiative. I had the idea to do it anyways, as part of being proactively engaged in the events (Which is what is absolutely wanted with this kinda stuff), and that was essentially taken away by telling everybody else to do it too. This is more "Tall Poppy" stuff I guess, but I might as well raise the point that if there's no benefit to being insightful then it's going to happen a lot less, and people will wait to be spoonfed the next action instead of being proactive. My engagement in the campaign has ultimately dropped somewhat as a result.

D) It gives people an idea of how to participate but it also imposes severe constraints on how they can participate.
 

Centurion

Dark Council Elite
This post sums up pretty much all of my own thoughts the moment I heard that this part of the campaign was going to be a thing. It doesn't seem to have actual IC reasoning for everybody to start scouring the NK beyond "Clain lost them" and I don't like that from an event. I would rather have individual set up events, personally, or at least things led by Clain.
 

Cymic_

Better than sliced bread
Legend
The only little reason i can think of rushing to find these, if someone mischevious finds it, they could possibly change the pantheon by hiding the thing, if what Clain is mentioning it true. On the other hand, some people may want to prevent this. Some don't want to take the risk, and are trying to get them so these gods (theoretically) don't fade.

If a group of friends are going, the ones who testify against Clain may hop aboard to

A.) Make sure they don't get themselves killed.

B.) itch that subconcious "what if.."

And some may be flat-out treasure hunting. If these are so rare and well guarded, there is reason. You could sell it to a jeweler or ransom it to someone that wants to "save the Pantheon".

I personally believe Clain is a big fat liar, when were these stones made. Why would they have been made, who could have possibly predicted the gods would fade. And lastly, if you think about it, you are releasing something, in the process of trying to unrelease another.

Probably didn't justify much but this is how i take it.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
This is being reviewed. Will respond later tonight, likely? Maybe later today.

I'm not a man of certainty so I'll try my best to get you something.
 

Cymic_

Better than sliced bread
Legend
This post sums up pretty much all of my own thoughts the moment I heard that this part of the campaign was going to be a thing. It doesn't seem to have actual IC reasoning for everybody to start scouring the NK beyond "Clain lost them" and I don't like that from an event. I would rather have individual set up events, personally, or at least things led by Clain.
Recruit Clain for an expedition ;) no, i kid. There is no way he can explore these places with each party, but perhaps he should have been created with the knowledge of a general 4 section radius. But i agree.. For the most part. If things were led by Clain, 60-70 people would be accompanying him. That means flooded chat, and hard to control overcrowded groups. This gives a chance to pick a group with people we want to freeze/burn/fall/drown to death with. Easier to control. Logically easier to navigate, less hazards. Generally more efficient. But perhaps Clain should issue some clues at the very least.
 

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
Recruit Clain for an expedition ;) no, i kid. There is no way he can explore these places with each party, but perhaps he should have been created with the knowledge of a general 4 section radius. But i agree.. For the most part. If things were led by Clain, 60-70 people would be accompanying him. That means flooded chat, and hard to control overcrowded groups. This gives a chance to pick a group with people we want to freeze/burn/fall/drown to death with. Easier to control. Logically easier to navigate, less hazards. Generally more efficient. But perhaps Clain should issue some clues at the very least.
If the NPC doesn't have a reason to know 'X', then they shouldn't know X.

The tent in the northern area speaks that someone explored it previously. If the guy doesn't know where the other ones are, then he doesn't know where they are.

The NPC giving clues is nonsensical and doesn't make any sense when correlated with his existing presented ethos - if he knows where they are, he'd be taking people there with him, and only if he had to.
 

Cymic_

Better than sliced bread
Legend
If the NPC doesn't have a reason to know 'X', then they shouldn't know X.

The tent in the northern area speaks that someone explored it previously. If the guy doesn't know where the other ones are, then he doesn't know where they are.

The NPC giving clues is nonsensical and doesn't make any sense when correlated with his existing presented ethos - if he knows where they are, he'd be taking people there with him, and only if he had to.
I am eluding he /should/ have been created with the knowledge. Perhaps he acquired info from an underground group. Some 2nd/3rd party group. And no doubt someone explored it before. A friend found a journal and some interesting things. But they didn't go deep enough to see the shadows or trees or crystals.
 

CyberChaosV2

Lord of Altera
how would you have done it then? Cause here's the thing, without Clain saying "I don't know where the others are, and I don't have any clues as to where they might be, so I'll need your help to find them." What are people left with thinking?

A.) Ok, we got the first one, now to wait for Clain to find where the next one is so we can do an escort mission with puzzles again. and then wherever Clain chooses, there might be controversy over the fact it would be near one town, or none at all, if its near one town, then people would get mad their towns werent chosen after all 3 bastion stones are found. if its near none, people get mad they volunteered their towns for nothing.

B.) Ok, we've gotta plan an exploration to look for these stones. This is a good outcome, but let's face it, not many people were doing it so it'd be more of just a select group doing this, plus, not everyone would really think of this. Then there's the fact that not all areas would be ok to explore due to IC reasons, some natural, some governmental cough Cap cough and in that case, what do you do then if it turns out theres supposed to be a stone there, but the owners don't wanna search it themselves?

Was this perfect? No. Could this have been done better? Probably. Is this still a good idea? I personally think so, yes. It allows not only for people to see more of the actual world rather than just where other people built towns, but it also allows different people to interact with eachother in new ways. I can't say anything, but something happened in Zima and Roy isn't very fond of Akasha right now, when previously they were very good friends. I'm honestly loving this idea and hope we can do it again in the future, though that wouldn't be for a while. But hey, this kind of event also helps sailor characters get in more rp of that kind due to the fact that PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SAILING!
 

Cymic_

Better than sliced bread
Legend
Was this perfect? No. Could this have been done better? Probably. Is this still a good idea? I personally think so, yes. It allows not only for people to see more of the actual world rather than just where other people built towns, but it also allows different people to interact with eachother in new ways. I can't say anything, but something happened in Zima and Roy isn't very fond of Akasha right now, when previously they were very good friends. I'm honestly loving this idea and hope we can do it again in the future, though that wouldn't be for a while. But hey, this kind of event also helps sailor characters get in more rp of that kind due to the fact that PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SAILING!
RPing the voyage will be fun. I am stowing away on a boat. ;) and i think this gives a chance to explore. I havn't seen a lot of the places. Ive been to Arroch nor. Aeroch rimtar. Zima. Tambry. Crossroads. Fort Oren. Helka'Taime (mine), Riseport, Grafjell, and i think 1 More place. I have only been to the main settlements. Never been to the desert region and i am happy to go there.
 

Bartooliinii

An Alteran Bard
Patron
Retired Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
Slimy_Froggy
Slimy_Froggy
Patron
It would be very interesting to see someone with bad intentions finding one of the stones and just tossing it to the bottom of the ocean or something similar.
Which quite frankly would mean the end of the campaign :/ Can't visit the bottom of the ocean properly without dying.
But perhaps that is a bit too far derailed from the actual first post of this thread.
 

Sankera

Lord of Altera
In-Game Tech Staff
Lore Staff
Merchant
Staff
Pronouns
He/Him, They/Them
Sea_of_Fog
Sea_of_Fog
LegendMerchant
It would be very interesting to see someone with bad intentions finding one of the stones and just tossing it to the bottom of the ocean or something similar.
Which quite frankly would mean the end of the campaign :/ Can't visit the bottom of the ocean properly without dying.
But perhaps that is a bit too far derailed from the actual first post of this thread.
;^}
 

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
how would you have done it then? Cause here's the thing, without Clain saying "I don't know where the others are, and I don't have any clues as to where they might be, so I'll need your help to find them." What are people left with thinking?

A.) Ok, we got the first one, now to wait for Clain to find where the next one is so we can do an escort mission with puzzles again. and then wherever Clain chooses, there might be controversy over the fact it would be near one town, or none at all, if its near one town, then people would get mad their towns werent chosen after all 3 bastion stones are found. if its near none, people get mad they volunteered their towns for nothing.

B.) Ok, we've gotta plan an exploration to look for these stones. This is a good outcome, but let's face it, not many people were doing it so it'd be more of just a select group doing this, plus, not everyone would really think of this. Then there's the fact that not all areas would be ok to explore due to IC reasons, some natural, some governmental cough Cap cough and in that case, what do you do then if it turns out theres supposed to be a stone there, but the owners don't wanna search it themselves?

Was this perfect? No. Could this have been done better? Probably. Is this still a good idea? I personally think so, yes. It allows not only for people to see more of the actual world rather than just where other people built towns, but it also allows different people to interact with eachother in new ways. I can't say anything, but something happened in Zima and Roy isn't very fond of Akasha right now, when previously they were very good friends. I'm honestly loving this idea and hope we can do it again in the future, though that wouldn't be for a while. But hey, this kind of event also helps sailor characters get in more rp of that kind due to the fact that PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SAILING!
Hypothetical Speculation, since I was asked, not much different, just a minor tweak to make most expeditions worthwhile in some degree.
You make the spooky stuff give a very cryptic riddle pointing at multiple possible locations, each of which contains /part/ of the information required to find, and navigate, each of the remaining locations, requiring separate expeditions to work together to make everything come together, or else folks are just off spinning on their own.

The clues hinting to locations limits down the actual number events to a smaller subset where you can avoid dud events than potentially 30 while requiring some form of collaboration eases off the haste people feel in needing to register expeditions lest they get left out. It also lets the staff stage each 'Bastion' in order if they so choose, by having folks find the clues and hints towards one location first, then clues there lead to the next, and so on and so forth.

Could include some kind of cryptic tablet in one chamber in the bastion, and it has marks in several places, or it could be more obscured.

This may well even be close to reality, but if so, the problem was that it's not been expressed to the playerbase, and so we have the aforementioned Charlie Foxtrot until everybody gets more elaboration.
 

Cymic_

Better than sliced bread
Legend
It would be very interesting to see someone with bad intentions finding one of the stones and just tossing it to the bottom of the ocean or something similar.
Which quite frankly would mean the end of the campaign :/ Can't visit the bottom of the ocean properly without dying.
But perhaps that is a bit too far derailed from the actual first post of this thread.
Yea. That is what i mentioned and i said that would be quite interesting if they hid the gem. But this is possible. and that means there could be a huge loss.. of a lot. The gods. Religions. Etc. That is why i personally believe that they wouldn't make this possible, and that Clain is using this for evil intent.
 

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
Addendum: By also making it partially riddle-based instead of more of a brute-force chunk search you can also better reward initiative and skill in sounding out the riddle or challenge, etc.

All in all I'd be feeling much less put out if the floodgates hadn't opened within a week, and folks got the chance to
A) Investigate the original site some more
B) Get a chance to come up with the idea of exploration on their own, and then this system got launched right after.


Second Edit: Can you folks stick to constructive posts instead of emoticons? Yes Sankera, we know about your characters heresy, it's not like it's not been shoved in our face all the time.
 

Ddaug

Lord of Altera
I personally think the system put in place is a great idea to get everyone on the server involved. This is a server wide event, so it would be a waste if only a few characters got all the glory by finding the stones themselves. A small take-away from role play realism is very much worth the OOC structure and opportunities in my opinion.
 

Heie

Lord of Altera
Lore Staff
Legend
Staff
I personally think the system put in place is a great idea to get everyone on the server involved. This is a server wide event, so it would be a waste if only a few characters got all the glory by finding the stones themselves. A small take-away from role play realism is very much worth the OOC structure and opportunities in my opinion.
I think what naelwyn iz trying to say, is that it could have waited a week or two for ic development before players were rushed to the train station.
 

Archbishop

Faith prevail
Retired Staff
Archbishop
Archbishop
(I'm going to keep doing them as they come)

Charlie Foxtrot.
Correct me if I'm wrong...

but that's the military terminology for C.F., otherwise known as a Clusterf*ck. Not necessarily a fair assessment. Flawed? Perhaps. But definitely not a CF.

Honestly, every event is going to have its problems. There will be no /perfect/ event, but I think this event is an opportunity for players to construct their own experiences within the greater scheme of the campaign-at-large.
 

Rygan

Deathblade
Evil
Rygan_Deathblade
Rygan_Deathblade
Evil
My main problem is having to either force my character to buddy up with a lot of random exploration groups he has no reason to be with, or only be able to attend one proper server event for potentially anywhere from a month to two months. I dunno, I was kinda hoping for an event every maybe two weeks.
 
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